Author: Kevin Rogers Cobus

There is a particular kind of courage that stays modest, but still exudes strength. It looks like showing up, no matter what. 

In this conversation, Face the Lion’s Anthony Rinaldi takes the band’s name seriously, tracing the long road from private songs and public fear to the decision to step into the indie music world and stay there. Rinaldi and Adam Skinner (guitarist and vocalist), talk through the things that test a modern rock band’s nerve: choosing quality over convenience in the studio, deciding whether to chase singles or commit to an album, and learning how to trust an arrangement when the room starts pushing back. It is part origin story, part reality check, and part reminder that the best bands are rarely fearless. They are just willing to face the lion, one song at a time.

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The Indie Distributor: All right. Thank you for joining the Indie Distributor podcast. I’m the host, Kevin Rogers Cobus. I’m with the band Shoemaker Levee and also work with The Indie Distributor, interviewing bands about their process and their progress in the industry, and getting to know them a little bit better. Joined today by Anthony Rinaldi from Face the Lion, the epic band out of Barrie. Adam Skinner is going to be joining us as well. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today.

Anthony Rinaldi: Thank you so much for having us!

The Indie Distributor: It’s our pleasure. The common thing that we normally kick off with is getting to know a little bit of the origin story, where things got started. You can go back as far as you’re comfortable, but I’m always interested in finding out how things came to be in terms of how the band was formed and how those things happened.

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah. My origin as a musician, honestly, I’ve written music since I was a kid, but I was literally too scared to do anything about it for my whole life. I was too scared to sing in front of anybody. Any other musician I met, I always thought, man, why am I even playing? They’re just incredible. Like watching you two play, as a guitarist, when I see you guys live, I’m just like, man, you guys are incredible guitarists. And immediately, I always felt that little bit of, why am I even playing? Because there’s just so many amazing musicians and talented musicians.

And now that I’ve started this journey, I’ve definitely met so many amazing people and musicians. But yeah, I got to a point in my life where I was on and off with music, and it was just in my head all the time, writing these melodies. And then about seven years ago, I was like, “All right, I got to do something with these.” All these songs I’ve written since I was like 10, 11 years old.

Funny enough, my brother-in-law is Darren, who is our amazing bass player. He married my sister, I think it’s been like 13 years now. I could be wrong. He’s our bass player. Finally, I just said to him, “Let’s start jamming and have some fun and see where this goes.” We started jamming, we started putting pieces together, and here we are seven years later. It’s been a wild journey for someone who had zero confidence in playing music.

The Indie Distributor: I love that story. There’s a lot to be said for artists that are just getting started, that may have to overcome the hurdle of. Ultimately, how did you overcome that? You touched on “I have to get these songs out.” Was that the impetus behind pushing through it?

Anthony Rinaldi: It was a combination of really intense feelings of needing to get these songs out. But I’m also a hair stylist for a living. I talk to incredible people every day of my life, all ages. When you have so many different age groups in your chair, whether they’re healthy or sick, and they’re telling you their journey in life, I would question myself: if something happened to me, what would be one regret I’d have?

And that one thing was never doing anything with music, and never trying anything, because I had so much passion and love for it. That was the thing that kept replaying in my head. I just thought, you know what, I’m going to do it. If that’s the one regret I’m going to have, I’m going to do it. Whether I succeed or fail, it doesn’t matter. Just do it to complete your journey and soul in life, to make your soul happy. That’s where I started and made that dive. My brother-in-law Darren encouraged me a lot to go along with it. It’s been an incredible journey.

The Indie Distributor: That is so cool. I love that. I think that ties in to the next question. The name seems like it’s on that theme. What’s the significance behind the name?

Anthony Rinaldi: Pretty much facing your fears. Darren brought the name to the band. We took probably two years trying to figure out a band name. He brought this one to the band. He saw this picture in a novel. It was this child in a cage with three lions, basically face to face, and the child not scared at all. It was basically facing your fears. What are your fears in life? Just face the lion, face that line in front of you. That spoke to me. I loved it right away. I said, “Yes.” He’s like, “Yeah, I like it too.” Then the drummer and bass player were like, “Yep. That’s it. That’s ours.” Because we’re all kind of facing our own fears in some way. That’s how it stuck.

The Indie Distributor: Spectacular. It’s always good when you know the thing fits across the board. You’re like, “Yep, we can make a decision now.” I also understand taking two years for a name. That’s not uncommon.

So you’ve been releasing some singles. I saw three that are somewhat recent: “Lies,” “Comfortably Drowning,” and “All On You.” Are they part of a larger EP or LP that’s in the works?

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah. I’m sure you guys have so many songs you’d love to professionally record and finish a full album or even a six or seven song EP. We all would love to do that and we all have songs ready to go.

We just finished recording those three and released in the fall with Kevin Deets at Union Sound in Toronto. We hope to get back in the studio as soon as possible to finish the rest. But if it’s delayed and we have to release another EP, we have enough songs for a couple EPs right now. We have a bit of songwriting ADD. We just love to create, all four of us. That’s what I love about the band. I’ve always loved to create and play originals whenever we play.

Although when we were playing Bracebridge Hall and watching you guys, you played that live song and everybody was singing along. I was like, you know what, we got to start playing a couple cool covers because you really nailed it, and you got everybody up singing and dancing too.

The Indie Distributor: Thank you. It’s interesting, what you said about playing cool covers, making them your own. That takes away some of the stigma of “we’re an original band, but we don’t want to go down the road of cover songs.” If you can put the Face the Lion stamp on it and say, “This is how we interpret this creative work,” it gives more versatility throughout your set. A lot of original bands wrestle with that.

Anthony Rinaldi: For sure. You wrestle too. As soon as you open your mouth for that first line, people are going to mimic how they’re used to hearing the song. It’s impossible, right? It’s not going to be a Nirvana song. It’s not going to sound like Kurt Cobain or Eddie Vedder. But if you can get people dancing and singing along with whatever you end up playing, it’s a good feeling.

The Indie Distributor: I agree. And part of the thing is making sure you continue to have fun with it. As long as you’re having fun and people are familiar with the material, they’ll go right along with it.

The Indie Distributor: Adam, how are you doing?

Adam Skinner: I’m good. How you doing? My apologies for the delay.

The Indie Distributor: No, you’re fine. All good. We were just talking about compiling some of the songs you’ve written recently into a possible EP or LP down the line. The vote’s still out as to what the final product is going to be. I did have a follow-up question. The sentiment around whether you’d rather release a full-length album, or do you want it to be an EP. Have you had conversations like that? Is there a preference? What does the dynamic look like?

Anthony Rinaldi: We talked as a group about what’s realistic of what we can record for this year. We all agree that anything we record, we want it at the highest quality. So if that’s spending a little bit more money, even if it’s just three songs right now. We’re happy with our engineer, Kevin Deets. We’ve been using him for years, all three EPs. We’ve recorded at Metalworks and Union Sound. They’re great places. I don’t mind spending more money. I want it to be as good as we can get it.

We’ve had this discussion. What’s best, because everything is changing now. Do you put all your effort into one album and it’s gone like that? Or do you spread out singles and keep yourself current? With social media, keeping the band releasing new stuff every week, content. We chose to release a single every month this time around to keep it fresh.

Adam Skinner: The landscape has definitely changed in that regard. Having the ability to continually come out with content. In theory, you can put it all into a full-length, 10 song album. That was more of the CD generation, the tape generation, the album generation. But it still happens and it’s still fine. I’m okay with doing that.

The question is, I don’t know if that’s necessarily the goal. We’re basically just writing songs, and as soon as we have a collection we’re happy with, we jump in the studio. That’s what we just did. I’m not against going full-length. Obviously, we could do that two or three times and then say, “Hey, let’s slap these all together and call it an LP, a full-length.” LP is long play. I think that’s what it originally stood for.

The Indie Distributor: In a sense, a lost art. We’ve had multiple discussions about it in our band. We’re probably more old school than not, because we still remember the glory of sitting down with a record, listening end to end, going through the liner notes.

But a new crop of people have a different experience. It’s almost like a more transient exchange with music, listening while doing something else, going somewhere, consuming it in the midst of doing something else, as opposed to an assigned activity. It makes it different. We released basically three LPs. The only physical one we got made was the first one. The other two don’t have any physical copies. Then it reaches this point of, is there a point to doing this? I’m always curious to find out your feedback.

Anthony Rinaldi: I really miss going to the music store every Tuesday, buying that new album, and then sitting in my car either going for a drive or just sitting there and listening to the full album. That experience, I truly miss.

The Indie Distributor: It’s interesting now, not only is that a different experience, but when it comes to singles and the rapid pace people consume music, you’re not competing with other indie artists necessarily. You’re competing with David Bowie, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles. Because my kids, I’ve got two girls, 14 and 11. The way they consume music, their playlists are completely varied: new artists, indie artists, and very established artists. That’s where you’re competing for attention, and the playing field is so much broader.

Adam Skinner: It’s almost like a YouTube short versus a YouTube long form video. TikTok has consumed the short attention span. The attention span is being trained to be shorter and shorter. I try to keep my kid off the short form stuff. Anytime he gets to the shorts, I’m like, “No.” It’s either long form or it’s not happening right now. Training the brain to doom scroll, it’s shrinking our attention span quickly. We have to deal with that landscape, which is changing. So from now on, our songs are only a minute and a half.

The Indie Distributor: All kidding aside, the format seems like the industry is leaning that way because of shorter attention spans. However, there’s always going to be a camp of people that like long form content, immersing yourself in a subject. I don’t think there’s ever going to be a situation where there isn’t a place for an LP, or a 19 minute opus jazz odyssey style thing. There’s always going to be an audience that wants to dig deeper into the catalogue.

You mentioned Kevin Deets and the engineer side. Do you also work with a producer, or do you do your own production?

Anthony Rinaldi: We do our own and Kevin helps us with it as well.

Adam Skinner: Kevin’s a great producer. He wears two hats in that engineer-studio role, which is great.

The Indie Distributor: What does the writing process look like for Face the Lion?

Anthony Rinaldi: Adam joined last year. Previously, I would write a tune, record it on GarageBand or something, send it to the guys, and then we would make it our own. Now with Adam, it’s been amazing because I have a writing partner. He was the lead singer and writer in Atlantis Blueprint, which was an amazing band. I looked up to him as a musician. Now we throw ideas at each other all the time, whether it’s lines for a song to finish a chorus, or adding a bridge. It’s nice to shoot ideas back and forth. We’re very similar in our style and what we enjoy by ear. It’s huge for me because I’m learning a lot from Adam.

Adam Skinner: It’s funny. Anthony and I were driving down to a gig and I was like, “I got to show you these cool new rock songs.” Every single one I showed him, he’s like, “Yeah, it’s already on my playlist.” We definitely have the same interests, which helps with the writing process.

The Indie Distributor: Anthony, being the solo songwriter previously, and now working collaboratively on lyrics and arrangements, what adjustment have you made in your style knowing that’s the new way?

Anthony Rinaldi: Adam found out very quickly that my only thing I really present to the band is the emotion I can put towards something. Adam can kill his guitar and drums and whatever he touches, vocals, everything. The only thing I feel like I really have to write about is whatever my emotions are at that time.

To work with somebody like that, to bounce ideas off, it’s been great because sometimes you need to construct more than just pure emotion, and I’m learning that. It’s been an easy transition, to be honest, because for me it’s not about what our band was before Adam. It’s if we are going to be better and sound better, I’m all in. I’ve learned from Darren, I’ve learned from Nick as a drummer, and my focus each year is getting better as a musician and more confident. With Adam, in a year I’ve had way more confidence.

Adam Skinner: You’ve stepped up a lot. And the interesting thing about what we did yesterday. We always jam on Tuesday nights. We found the “okay, we don’t have a show coming up, this is going to be an entire writing session.” Anthony has this great new song. We all sat down with it. Nick is really great at arrangement. He’ll say, “Hold on, we’re doing eight bars there going into that, let’s cut it down to six, let’s try this different thing.” We just try stuff all night for hours, tweak it, tweak it, tweak it until we’re like, “Okay, that’s it.” We give everything its proper chance.

You change something, you try it, it’s sloppy, you’re like, “That didn’t feel great.” But it’s like, “Yeah, we didn’t even hit it.” Our rule is give it a chance and feel it. We’re like, “Hold on, let’s get it two or three times until we get super tight, so we can really tell if it feels right.” We record it too, so we can go back and listen to different takes.

Darren’s coming up, like, “The lyrics are a little too repetitive there. You got to tweak something.” We changed how the vocals are going to go. Everybody throws in their own thing, which is great.

And in the initial stages, Anthony and I both use GarageBand. We should probably be using Logic or something more advanced, but GarageBand is so easy to throw stuff together. It’s not like we’re putting it out there. The cool thing is I write a structure, send Anthony the GarageBand file, and he puts lyrics on it. Or vice versa, he writes something, sends it, and I make tweaks. We’ve done that quite a few times. It’s useful.

Anthony Rinaldi: Our last single, “All On You.” I woke up one morning to a message from Adam with this amazing arrangement with no vocals. Adam’s an insane vocalist, and I was like, “That’s weird. He didn’t have vocals.” He always adds vocals. He wrote, “I need you to write lyrics to this.” I had just lost a friend, and when I kept listening to it, I just kept hearing this song for my friend. It came together so quick.

It’s been awesome to have that. I’m usually the one hearing the arrangements in my head, but this time I sat in my car for weeks and listened to the arrangement he made, and I had to create a song without changing anything. It wasn’t my guitar parts that I wrote. So I shot back lyrics.

Adam Skinner: Your lyrics are great and the melody was great. I was so excited when he finally sent back the track of his vocals. I listened like 10 times in a row. I was like, “Oh yeah, this is good.” Then I started down the harmony route.

Anthony Rinaldi: That’s fun to me.

Adam Skinner: That was a lot of fun. We got to do that more.

The Indie Distributor: It’s fascinating to hear various styles of writing and how things come together. Nothing wrong with GarageBand. If that’s your pre-production process and it’s clicking, it works. People shoot voice memos back and forth.

Anthony, sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

I have a question that has to do with an interview you did in 2011, and references to lyrical absence of substance in today’s music. Firstly, do you feel that’s shifting given the temperament of the time? How does that affect your writing? Do you feel like that trend is shifting now?

Anthony Rinaldi: It’s hard to say. There are so many amazing bands out there writing incredible music. For me, all I can say is I write with emotion, write what’s real to me. For me personally, I use music as therapy. When I drive home, it’s always on. I’m listening to our stuff, or music in general. I’ll sit in my driveway sometimes for a couple songs because I live close to work, so I only get one or two songs in, and I’ll just sit and listen. That’s the basis of why I wanted to become a musician. If I can make somebody feel good by writing music, and they sit in their driveway and listen to a couple songs and feel great after, that to me is why I do it.

That’s the power of music, healing people. When people come after your show and say they loved your music, that’s an incredible feeling. That’s all I want to do it for. If I can help other people the way music’s helped me, then I’m doing my job.

To answer your question, it varies. Pop music, the hits, it doesn’t really engage me. But I hear local music and local bands singing and I’m engaged because I can feel their heart pouring out on the stage.

The Indie Distributor: I love that. The comment struck me because when trends occur and world events are happening, music can be a mirror to the sentiment of the populace. We’ve gone through phases where lyrical content feels safe. And now, I’m curious if that evolved for you given recent events, not getting political.

Anthony Rinaldi: I would say “Lies” could be political. The song I wrote, I didn’t want to make it seem that way. It could be anything. It could be you’re tired of people leading you in the wrong direction for their own benefit. That idea came from lies people are telling you so you go down the wrong path, for them to benefit. I didn’t want to take sides, but it could be taken as political. I made sure it didn’t come across that way. You could listen to the song and connect it to something that happened in your life where someone’s taking advantage of someone’s kindness for their own benefit, financial or otherwise.

The Indie Distributor: In some cases it’s difficult to come right out with the explanation of what the lyrics mean. And it’s almost a similar conversation to what you touched on in that interview when someone asks, “What type of music do you play?” It’s one of those questions you kind of dread. “I don’t want to sound presumptuous, but we don’t go for one particular genre.” I think that’s similar in your case too, right?

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah. For sure. You don’t want to label yourself under one thing because someone might say you’re not grunge or you’re not indie. We’re just putting music out, and if you enjoy it, you enjoy it. We hope you do.

Adam Skinner: Just say rock. I’m like, “We’re a rock band.”

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah.

Adam Skinner: And then you get, “Oh, like screamo?” and you’re like, “No, just rock.”

The Indie Distributor: How many classifications are there, thousands. On the other hand, the industry leans on you to say, no, you’ve got to work on your elevator pitch so people know what to expect. How do you balance that? What’s your elevator pitch?

Adam Skinner: I usually say our influences. I’m like, we’re rock, and then they’re like, can you get deeper? I’m like, we’re really influenced by 90s rock. As soon as I say that, they go, “Oh, okay,” and they capture what we’re doing. We’re so influenced by it that it comes out in our music. As soon as I say that, people’s eyes open up.

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah. You could say 90s grunge. But I also say Adam and I love the Beatles and we love harmonies. When he joined the band it was like, “All right, now I have somebody to sing with.” We knew our voices melted well together. We wanted that old school rock sound mixed with grunge and that soul. That’s how I explain it. It’s a little bit of everything.

Adam Skinner: On the vocal thing, last night Nick’s on his phone playing drums, we’re testing something out, harmonies. I was trying to find the right harmony and it’s tricky because he’s at such a high note. Where do I sit? Below him, above it? Too high. Anthony sometimes goes, “Why don’t you just hit the exact same line I’m singing.” As soon as we did that, Nick did one of these. Then Anthony and I are like, “What, was it bad?” He’s like, “No, it shocked me how great it sounded.” We were like, “Oh man, was that bad?” That’s our first reaction. He’s like, “No. Do it again.” We matched the exact same pitch. We hit the exact same line, but we have such different voices. Anthony’s got this gritty rock voice and I’m smoother, different tone. We hit it at the same time and he jumped off his chair.

If it’s not stuck in your head enough on loop that you’re making fun of the lyrics, was it worth it? The whole time we’re packing up, that stuff happens. It’s a good sign.

The Indie Distributor: Love those moments when things click. What’s next? What’s on the plate for the next couple of months?

Anthony Rinaldi: We finished playing at the Horseshoe Tavern two Saturdays ago. We’ve been lucky enough to play there twice before, but during the week. This was an amazing night on a Saturday night. The room was great, the sound was great, I thought we played pretty solid, and the three other bands, In Your Walls, 40 Hours Over, and Full Throttle, were awesome. Amazing people. It was a wonderful night from beginning to end.

What’s next, we have a show at Bracebridge Hall in March. We were going to play another show in Toronto but we weren’t able to make it. We’re writing like crazy right now. We’re debating if we’re going to get back in the studio as well and record a few extra tunes to add to the LP or something separate.

Adam Skinner: We’ve got probably four new ones since the EP, I think.

Anthony Rinaldi: Yeah. And we have so many other songs we haven’t recorded yet, that we’ve had for about five years too, that we play live but never had the chance to record.

The Indie Distributor: It’s great to have a stockpile to draw from for the next plans.

Anthony Rinaldi: We’re hoping to have a busy summer playing live. We love playing live. We had a busy summer and a busy winter. Now we’re taking time to write. I know you guys as well, with your drummer being off for a little bit, you had time to sit and write as well. It’s important to have those periods. Not always jamming for the next show. Take some time and write songs, revisit old ones and finish them properly, or explore new ideas.

Like I was telling you before, we’ve got songwriting ADD. Any new idea we have to work on for like five hours straight.

Adam Skinner: The shiny new thing.

The Indie Distributor: Better than the alternative, being stuck for ideas.

Adam Skinner: New songs are the fuel of a band. If you’re not writing new songs, it starts to stagnate quickly. New songs are critical. Sometimes you get stuck in ruts. I bought one of those frustrated songwriter handbook things. Most of those get you to break out of writer’s block. Write three songs in half an hour. No time to think deeply. You just hammer something out. It gets you back into spitting stuff out and not worrying if that chorus is similar to that song. Just spit it out as fast as you can.

The Indie Distributor: Writer’s block is a real thing. That’s a great point. I tried the 52 song project, a song a week. There’s a bunch of junk in there, but there’s some stuff I go back and listen to and I can grab a piece and put it somewhere else. There’s value in doing those activities to test your creative muscle.

Anthony Rinaldi: The song we were jamming to last night, I wrote on New Year’s Eve. I sat in my room for four hours straight. You know those ones that come out so easily. The band liked it. It was the best feeling in the world. We wrote “Lies,” “All On You,” “Comfortably Drowning,” and they came out kind of quick. Then we were busy performing. I had splashes of ideas, but this song was on loop in my head all day and I had to get it out. Showing the band, and then we make it our own, everybody gives ideas, and last night was so much fun. That’s the joy of being in a band. When we have a song, whether it be Adam’s, mine, whatever, and everybody likes it and feels good about it, it’s such a wonderful feeling.

Adam Skinner: Everybody was firing on all cylinders last night. Nobody was like, “Not that bridge again.” Everyone’s like, “Okay, let’s try it this way, let’s try it that way.” No time to sit around and debate. Nick comes up with ideas all the time. “What if the ending, we didn’t do that, but we did these hits and then this thing.” Then we tackle it. Try it three times until it sounds reasonable so we can see if it’s good.

Our writing process is becoming more refined. It used to be writing in between jamming songs. If there was a lull, we’d be like, “Okay, jam the next song.” Now we dedicate an entire session. “We’re going to work on that song the entire time.” No rush. Everybody takes a deep breath and works through things.

Anthony Rinaldi: This morning I was like, is this a really good song because it’s on loop in my head, or is it because we played it for six hours last night? We kept playing it over and over. In my head this morning, I’m like, “Oh yeah, it’s good.” Then I’m like, “No, I think it’s because we played it over and over.”

The Indie Distributor: Any advice for indie musicians who are just getting their feet wet?

Adam Skinner: Anthony, wait. Sorry, before you answer that. I got to pick up my kid, so I got to go. I’m sure Anthony’s going to have great advice.

The Indie Distributor: It’s great to see you, Adam. Take care.

Anthony Rinaldi: Any artist, going from being scared to sing in front of anybody to starting at small venues, going up and playing open mics by yourself and being nervous. If you love it and you’re passionate and you’re open to learning and working with others. Years later, this summer we were lucky enough to play Kempenfest. That was our biggest crowd. We opened for Colin James. I look back from seven years ago, from playing open mics to that. It’s an amazing journey. I’ve met so many amazing bands, like you guys, and people, and the community.

The advice is, if you love it, it’s not easy. It’s a lot of work and time. But if you love it, it doesn’t feel like that. You’ve got to put the effort in and keep going at it. If you’re not in the right environment, you’ll find the right environment if you like it and you’re open to wanting to get better. That’s my whole thing. Learning, wanting to get better, wanting to put good music out, not being scared anymore, and just letting it all out, letting me be me. Hopefully people enjoy it as much as I love listening to music. It’s a wonderful thing. The cool thing is the music community is amazing. You guys have been nothing but great people for us, encouraging us. Watching each other play over the years has been awesome. I wish everybody good luck in their journey too.

The Indie Distributor: Well said. Anthony, thank you so much for taking the time. Can’t wait to see you guys play live again, and I’m looking forward to what’s next from Face the Lion.

Anthony Rinaldi: I appreciate you having us. Thank you so much.

Pat James isn’t interested in chasing the Internet’s next shiny object. 

In this conversation with The Indie Distributor, the Aurora, Ontario songwriter behind Pat James and the Whole Truth talks about why he finally committed to a full-length album, how he thinks about genre (and why he tries not to), and what “success” looks like when you care more about real rooms than big numbers. 

Along the way, he gets candid about the pressure to get followers, the return of substance over scroll, and why a music video does not need a four-figure budget to hit people in the chest.

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The Indie Distributor: Pat James is here with me from Pat James and the Whole Truth. Thanks for taking the time to jump on the Indie Distributor podcast. Today we just wanted to catch up with you and get a sense of your origin story. I always want to ask about how things get started… so how did things get started? How did you get wrapped up in this crazy industry? What’s the origin story?

Pat James: I guess it really depends on how far back you want to go. If we’re talking the project, that was years and years in the making. I’d been in a few original projects in the last 10, 12 years. I’ve always been the primary songwriter, but I’ve never been fully the primary decision maker.

For anyone who writes music and performs in a band as a group, you generally have to give concessions to what other people want as well. Everybody has their input.

I tend to write across many genres when it comes to songwriting. So a lot of material that I had written over the years sat dormant because it didn’t really fit the project I was in at the time, or maybe it was a little off-brand. Eventually I hit a point where I was like, I don’t have a brand. Everything I write is me.

So this is the birth of Pat James and the Whole Truth. The idea that everything that I write, everything that I create is me, and there’s no real thought or consensus as to what that should sound like.

When I thought about putting this album together (I’d Like to Leave), there was a plethora of material to choose from, and this was just the first 12 songs we grabbed. There’s another album waiting to be recorded once this one is finished being promoted and played, and when funds are available, we’ll get there. But that’s really how I got here, just the need to express every part of my songwriting.

The Indie Distributor: You mentioned that it’s not necessarily classified by a genre, given that you’ve woven through a few different musical identities. Apple Music classifies it as Americana. I don’t know how you perceive what your brand is, and whether that’s something you’re going to lean into or not let define you as these new songs start to take shape.

Pat James: That Americana roots rock branding was chosen because when you upload music they basically make you put yourself in a box. They say pick the one that most represents, or pick three. You’re sitting there going, okay, in my 20s I was really into punk, and that comes out in some of the songs in the way that I write bridges and the rhythms I choose. Maybe not so much on this album, but in other songs. It’s really hard choosing what fits.

Working with some industry people, their best judgment was, use these tags because they give you the most left and right of the post. You can sit comfortably in there and not have to be super acoustic based. You can still be riff rock, you can still do this. I think it fits the overarching theme. In my songwriting, regardless of what it sounds like, I’m always trying to tell a story.

Every song has a beginning, middle, end. There’s generally a character you can follow through. So I think that’s very folk Americana storytelling. Maybe that’s why it fits.

But I don’t really know when it comes to genre. I try not to think too much about it because even subconsciously it will play on my thoughts, like, am I getting too outside the vibe? And I’m like, no, there’s no vibe. We’re just making music. Let’s do whatever feels good.

The Indie Distributor: I like landing on that as the ultimate decision, because one of the questions we dread, even though it’s genuine, is: what do you guys sound like? What defines your sound?

I saw some Instagram posts back when the record was being released about bringing back the full-length record and 12-song releases coming back. What was the discussion or decision-making process behind releasing an actual album rather than a series of EPs or singles?

Pat James: We did release singles off the album leading up to the album. We did follow the algorithm trend of trying to create that every 6 to 8 weeks, new music being posted. As much as I want to be the guy that says I’m going back to old ways and old media, we still have to play the game with the medium we have, which is online streaming. So we did release singles.

But the idea behind the album, for me, I always grew up with albums. I grew up in a time where it was normal to release an album. People talk about it all the time: the liner notes, the stories, the artwork inside. Being able to open up the CD. I was a little past vinyl. Seeing things that weren’t readily available because we didn’t have online, we didn’t have much more than magazines and MuchMusic.

Wanting to do the full album, wanting to create that experience, was something I’d always wanted to do. And for morbid reasons, I’m also a very morbid person. It’s not that I’m not a happy guy, but I definitely write from a darker perspective. I had a thought of like, well, I should probably release an album because you can get hit by a bus any day.

So to have a plan where the ultimate goal was to release an album one day was like, today’s the day. Let’s release an album. I can do whatever I want after that, but that was always an ultimate goal.

I’ve never released a full-length album before, and it’s taken me this long to get here. I’m 46. To me this is a bucket list thing to do and I’m really proud of it. I think it’s a really great album that people would enjoy listening to. Even if they have no idea who we are, there’s something on there for everyone.

The Indie Distributor: I love that. I’m also from the school of releasing full-length albums because it’s a statement piece of where the artist is at. It’s a snapshot. And it’s too bad that liner-notes experience isn’t really the same anymore. Watching how my kids interact with music, it’s transient. It’s not a sit down, immerse yourself, top to bottom experience. It’s single-driven. Hard to say that’s bad. It’s just the way it is.

Pat James: It’s just the way it is. Even with my son, he’s 10. I don’t push him towards music or try to entice him to pick up an instrument. But he does love music and he’s always singing. He’s singing whatever the trending audio is in videos. They might be songs from 40 years ago. It’s more like sound bites.

But I do think there are younger people looking for something more in-depth. We had this discussion at shows, especially outdoor festivals where it’s family. Canada Day or something like that. I had some under-20ish people come up after the show and say they really loved the set, and there was this one song that really, what was that called? It might have been three or four people out of a few hundred, but I was like, you guys just made my day.

There are younger people today who see the surface levelness of music. You could talk an hour or do a 10-part mini-series on that.

I do think there’s an overall trend where people want something of more substance. It’s not the norm, but more and more I’m hearing people talk about wanting more connection. Connection with family, friends, and in this case music, art, media. Less time scrolling, more getting out there.

As a band, I want to tap into that. I want to meet our fan base. When we’re at a show, I want to thank everyone for being there. I want to shake their hands. I want to take a selfie if that’s what they want. I want to let them know how appreciated they are for being there and being a part of it in real life.

The Indie Distributor: That makes sense. Time is such a valuable commodity. Someone takes the time to attend one of your concerts and actually listen, it’s mind-blowing.

I feel like we’ve reached an inflection point. Even my kids are anti-AI on several levels, especially in creative outlets. When it comes to the experience of sitting and watching a performer, I feel like the pendulum is starting to swing back. Indie musicians, it’s extremely tough.

Pat James: It really is. It would be very easy to try and write something catchy and gain traction online if that’s your goal today. For a long time we looked at social media like if we’re succeeding here, then we’re succeeding with our music. Big numbers means we’re important, we matter, a label or a festival will take us seriously.

What I’m trying to do, and what I talk about with other artists, is: I’d rather have an engaged fan base of a hundred people, or a thousand people. A hundred people in 10 different cities, and every time I go there, 50 show up because the schedule aligns. We’re engaged, connected, and we care about the same thing. Having a good time.

I remember playing a showcase with a band called The Road Heavy and a record label being there saying, “Yeah, you guys are great. Sounds good. You just got to get your numbers up.” I can’t remember the number, but it was like 20,000 followers across three platforms. I remember feeling sick about it. Like you’re ingesting poison. I know I’m not supposed to be doing this. This does not feel right. This is not why “young me” wanted to play guitar and be on stage in front of a mass audience feeding off each other’s energy. I didn’t think it would be hinged on how many thumbs up I got on the magic computer box.

It’s nice to see things change where artists are more genuinely concerned with the connection and building an engaged fan base rather than a massive fan base of people who liked a video because you looked good one time, or you did something funny.

You still do those things, you still show personality. I still try to post content. Well, I’m not allowed to post content. I have someone who posts and curates the page because I would post nonsense, movie clips. I understand that business side. You want to share relevant things online and keep the deeply personal stuff for real interactions.

But I like to see artists starting to see the importance of building that community, even if it’s smaller, but a community of people really invested in what you’re doing.

The Indie Distributor: If it’s just about the numbers, so much gets lost. Tried-and-true fans don’t care how many followers you have. They engage because they resonate with the message or the music.

Pat James: Two shows stand out to me. One was a concert in Detroit with a good friend to see Springsteen a few years back. That really did kick off the “I want to do this.” I knew I was gearing up for the project, and then I went to that concert and saw a stadium show performed for three hours. It was such a great performance, and done in such a way that you felt part of the show even though there were, I don’t know, 20,000 people.

The entire drive home I was rejuvenated, invigorated. People want that from a show. You watch a band perform, and if you connect and feed off that energy, it gears you up.

I didn’t leave there thinking the goal is I want to play the SkyDome [Rogers Centre]. I left there thinking I want to play a room with 50 people in it because I want to see everyone’s face. I know I’m not stadium guy. Maybe not yet. I want to try and achieve what I saw with Springsteen, but on my scale. What I define as success for me.

People ask, “Where do you see yourself in 5 years?” Honestly, I just want to consistently put 50 people in a room or 100 people in a room and tell some stories, connect. I love nothing more than playing a song and having someone feel it and relate to it. That gives me the same feeling as sitting in that stadium.

The Indie Distributor: I don’t want anyone to have to set their sights lower. You always have to have that fire. But the foundation is the connection, and it starts with one person.

I had a recent virality story. Over the holidays I posted a flippant video of my cats and my dog going around the Christmas tree. That got 300,000 likes and views. None of my other content reaches that. It’s a surplus of people paying attention for 15 seconds and then moving on. That can’t be what we’re striving for.

Pat James: As I hear you tell that story, my conditioned social media brain is like, “Oh, you should post that video again, but put your newest single in the background.” Isn’t it funny that’s where our brains go? Why can’t it just be awesome to watch a cat and dog run around a tree?

We’re always looking at how do we compound it, how do we get the most out of it. I think those moments when you’re just being you is what people can be drawn to. But you can’t be that all the time and you can’t manufacture it. It’s a fine balance. You can’t say I’m not participating.

Even your 50 to 100 followers want that cat chasing the dog. They want to see that side.

For me, I spend a lot of time driving. So sometimes I share what I do in my truck. I’ll record my road travelled. Sometimes I’ll post a snippet of my day travelling with my song behind it. Is it the best content? No. Is it going to go viral? No. But it’s the reality of my life. Or I’ll post videos of me singing in my truck. This is what I do.

The Indie Distributor: People want the human side, not just the polished, scripted version. They want the in-between. I think that’s why the Beatles Get Back series was so loved. It’s them just sitting around, bantering, working.

Shifting gears to video: the “Old Roads” video has that projector motif. For a lot of indie artists, video is a struggle, budget, storyline. Can you share what the inception of that video was like and how it got developed?

Pat James: Videos are a struggle because every professional person I spoke to was like, don’t spend money on videos, it’s a dead format, nobody’s doing videos anymore.

That took me back because I love videos. When I think of music videos, the first that pops in my head is Soundgarden “Black Hole Sun.” I don’t know why. I love MeatLoaf. I love music videos that tell a story.

Conceptually for “Old Roads,” we were sitting around saying, I’m older. We want to do this older thing, releasing a full-length album. So it fell in line with: what other things do we not really use anymore that I think are cool? Slideshows or projectors.

With that song specifically, I wanted to show the places I was talking about because I grew up in a small town. I grew up in Aurora. I watched it change. The song is about how you can live somewhere your entire life and the roads stay the same, but the landscape changes drastically. You might be on a familiar street that looks nothing like you remember.

It was this idea of going through time and photos. We expanded it to include some Toronto locations and places that may no longer be there.

The Indie Distributor: I did catch Sam the Record Man. Had to shed a tear there.

Pat James: Yeah. I tried to keep it to places I did have a connection to. I’d been to Sam the Record Man once or twice. The first music I ever purchased from a store was early 1990, 1991. My father took me to Toronto for the day, we were in an arcade, and we walked across the street into Sam the Record Man. I bought the Blaze of Glory soundtrack from Bon Jovi.

You miss that. People miss that. If you’re young today and you’ve never walked into an arcade and heard the ding ding, the pinball machine, it’s like everything today lives in the cloud.

That video for “Old Roads” was to show people: these are the places we used to go, where we used to hang out, where we used to buy music. The old brewery. Now you can get beer delivered to your house. It’s all very convenient.

I think I went more to the emotion of it, wanting to walk back through time and feel the song. When I saw the photos, it brought me back. We wanted people to feel the message of the song, not just hear it.

The Indie Distributor: That’s a helpful takeaway. Budgeting for video matters, but it’s not a case of “never budget.” In your case, nostalgia and emotional connection came through. A massive budget wasn’t required to get that one-shot thing.

Pat James: No, that was a budget-friendly video. The most expensive thing was renting the space because we wanted a specific open area and couldn’t find it for free. I paid a couple hundred for the space for five or six hours.

We shot that with a DSLR camera I’ve had since 2012. We shoot everything on an iPhone. With filters today you have everything you need to do a DIY version. People are used to seeing filters. If you want it grainy and old, there’s an app for that.

I remember doing a music video in a previous band and we spent $3,000, hired someone, took all day. It was the best music video I’ve ever been part of. Cool experience. But do you need to do that every time? Absolutely not.

Ninety-nine percent of people will watch it on their phone. They’re not going to throw it up on an 80-inch TV and inspect it. As an artist today you’re expected to wear so many hats. It’s to your benefit to figure out a way to make videos affordable, because you can use snippets for social media, engagement. Video is such a big one. Video and photos. You don’t want to spend a lot of money. You’re not going to get the return on your investment. People are expecting to see this stuff.

All of that is to say, you don’t need a big budget to try and make something artistic. Take your best shot at it. Take it less seriously than we probably ever did before and just make the video.

If you have $500, you’re probably better served spending $50 making a video, editing it yourself, buying some helpful editing software, and spending the rest on fuel, food, rooms and going to play shows a couple hours away from home. Try to connect with people. Record all that, use that for your next video.

Your money should be spent on quality recording audio and getting out to where you can meet the people and play for them.

We’re looking at doing shows around Northern Ontario. One weekend a month. Book three shows, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Maybe a three-day trip costs $1,000 for food, fuel, hotels. That $1,000 is way more valuable than putting $1,000 into a music video for no one to watch because I haven’t gone out there to get them yet.

We have to be careful where we put our limited money, and our time.

The Indie Distributor: That actually addresses why this podcast exists. To encourage and be an educational resource for independent musicians. Great advice.

In the interest of time, to wrap things up, what’s next for you guys? What’s on the agenda for the next couple months?

Pat James: The album is fully released. We’re going to spend the next 12 to 18 months continuing to promote it while we set up these weekend shows. April, May, June is already coming together and we’ve applied to things.

We’re going out to Sault Ste. Marie. Real quickly to artists: don’t be afraid to travel. Sault Ste. Marie loves music. We had a venue offer to basically give us residence for the weekend so we wouldn’t have to find multiple shows to play.

The Indie Distributor: Is that to play your original music?

Pat James: Yeah, original music. They offered we’ll do an hour and a half and they’ll bring in a DJ after that. Because it’s a rarely travelled to location, it’s hard to get there unless you’re on the way out west. They appreciate bands coming out and they’re willing to put you up somewhere and help you out. Artists should consider that. Getting north of the city, don’t be afraid to travel. They’re more receptive to new music.

For us, the rest of the year is promoting the album. Revisiting each song more in-depth each month and sharing what the music is about from the writing perspective. Playing shows. We’ve applied to multiple festivals, Gussapolooza and things like that. Hopefully more festivals this year.

We’ve started jamming material that isn’t on the album. I have a pile of music waiting. The plan is to keep creating new songs so in the next year we can get back in the studio and do the follow-up. I haven’t decided if it’s another album, an EP. Now that I’ve done the album, I can breathe and say, maybe I want to bang off four or five songs live off the floor and do an EP of new material.

I remember growing up and there being recordings from shows. Release that stuff. If you can get a decent recording off the board, which is more possible now, release it. People want that. Even if it’s on your website, even if it’s download-only. Give your fans behind-the-scenes audio. They’ll listen if they’re into what you’re doing. Create that stuff.

Lots of ideas, but the plan is to share the music and play as many shows as we can for people interested in the music.

I’m done playing for people while they’re eating chicken wings. I did that for a long time. I played solo acoustic bar gigs where people didn’t care. Give me 10 people in a coffee house, or five people at a house concert any day over 200 people that could care less if I’m a DJ or whatever.

The Indie Distributor: I hear you and we share the same philosophy. Developing community is important, and collaborating with bands that share audiences makes a lot of sense.

Pat James: Absolutely. And I do want to say thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate what you guys are doing. We need more of it. We don’t have MuchMusic and Exclaim of a certain calibre to talk about artists. We need more platforms for artists to talk like this and share and create.

That culture, that energy: you put out music, you talk about it, there’s somewhere to talk about it, someone wants to listen. We have an audience. Our audience will see your show. Your audience will see our music. We create this energy around what we’re trying to do. If we all have the same mindset of building, we can only go up from there.

The Indie Distributor: Love that and couldn’t agree more. Thank you, Pat, for taking the time to come on the podcast.

Pat James: Thanks, The Indie Distributor. Thanks for having me on the show.

The Indie Distributor: Really looking forward to the next whatever it ends up being, EP or otherwise. And also looking forward to catching your set at WinterSong.

Pat James: We’re playing WinterSong on January 24th and I look forward to that. Hopefully we’ll catch a Shoemaker Levee set. Maybe we’ll even discuss sharing a stage one day. We’ll see if we can make that work. You find bands where you’re like, these guys are cool, I like these guys, I think we’d be good with these guys.

The Indie Distributor: Love that. Love it. Thank you so much again, Pat. Really appreciate you taking the time to come on here today.

Wishwell’s Taylor Simpson on Mental Health, Music, and Not Having A ‘Plan B’

In an industry often obsessed with image over substance, Taylor Simpson and his band Wishwell are cutting through the noise with a message that matters. Born from the isolation of the pandemic and forged in the fires of personal struggle, Wishwell isn’t just a band—it’s a lifeline. From a solo project grappling with an identity crisis to a focused force for mental health awareness, Simpson sat down with The Indie Distributor to discuss the band’s evolution, their partnership with HeartSupport, and why having a “Plan B” is setting yourself up for failure. With a sound described as “crying on the dance floor” and a new single that defies industry standards, Wishwell is proving that authenticity is the loudest instrument on stage.

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The Indie Distributor: We’re here with Taylor Simpson from the band Wishwell. You’ve got your hearts in the right place and you’re pushing an initiative that’s extremely important. I’d love for you to dig into that a little bit—talk about your origin story, how you guys formed, and how this got off the ground.

Taylor Simpson: Thank you for having us. Wishwell has been around for almost five years now, which is crazy to say out loud. It all started around COVID; we formed near the end of 2021. I had been in a bunch of bands beforehand, and my most recent band broke up just before COVID happened. I wanted to do my solo stuff again because I was a solo artist in between all the bands I was in throughout the years.

When stuff started to open up again, I was like, “This is my chance to get back out there.” But I didn’t want to do it by myself. I wanted a band to back me up because it’s so much more fun playing with a band. I put out some feelers, got in contact with our guitar player, Sunny—him and I are the only OG members left—and we started writing some songs.

We went through a bunch of name changes. It started as a solo project, so we called it Taylor Simpson, then it was “Taylor Simpson and [insert band name here].” We had this gag where we would change our name every show. We’d reference the venue or an inside joke. It was a fun little thing, but marketing was a nightmare because audience members would promote us using the temporary name.

We then performed as “Taylor Simpson Wishful Feeling” for a while, but realized after a tour in 2023 that the name was too long. It wasn’t marketable compared to other bands’ one or two-word names. So we settled on Wishwell.

The Indie Distributor: What started the push into mental health awareness?

Taylor Simpson: That’s kind of how the band started. I’m a pretty open book and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I’ve struggled a lot with my mental health throughout the years. I lost my parents when I was really young. I’ve lost people to suicide and I’ve had suicidal tendencies throughout my life. I’ve been battling depression, anxiety, and OCD my whole life. So it comes from a real, genuine, authentic place. The rest of the guys in the band bring their own struggles to the table as well.

We all agree that while we’re making strides, there’s still so much work that needs to be done in our industry and around the world. As a society, I don’t think we’re taking mental health as seriously as we should be. We formed the band around that time, and everything we write is rooted in mental health themes—depression, anxiety, OCD, loss. Our whole mission statement is to spread mental health awareness and suicide prevention, and draw more eyes and ears to the cause.

The Indie Distributor: Do you find that venue owners and organizers resonate with that mission? Is it something they’re welcoming, or is there resistance?

Taylor Simpson: That’s a great question. There are people out there who maybe don’t believe in mental health illnesses or come from a generation where that wasn’t a thing, so there could be pushback. But luckily, living in Canada, we live in a country that is trying its best to conquer that.

The tour we’re on right now is a mental health charity tour in partnership with HeartSupport, a non-profit that offers free mental health services to music fans who don’t know where to turn. We felt compelled to do more than just a typical band tour. We wanted to dedicate an entire tour to giving back and spreading awareness.

There was minimal pushback, for which I’m grateful. Actually, it was the opposite. Venues and organizers have been welcoming, viewing the mission as a positive effort to give back to the community.

The Indie Distributor: As an artist, do you feel like since this has become part of your identity, the writing process has changed?

Taylor Simpson: I’ve always written about this stuff because you can only write from your experiences. For me, songs are like diary entries. I write when I have something to get off my chest. Having this focus with Wishwell has given me a “north star,” or permission to really dive into my craft and express my emotions without fear. I have guys in this band that feel the same way. It allows me to not be scared to talk about anything I might have been scared to talk about previously.

The Indie Distributor: Do you find that your outspokenness opens the door for deeper conversations with other artists and the community?

Taylor Simpson: Big time. Because we’re so outspoken and we wear our hearts on our sleeves—we’re not putting this on, this is just who we are—it opens the door for so many conversations. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve played a show and a song about losing someone has touched somebody. I’ve had bandmates from other bands, audience members, or even sound techs come up and talk to me. It gives them permission to say, “Oh, it’s okay to talk about this.”

We welcome these conversations. The whole point of why we do this is to make it more accessible, less taboo, and ultimately foster a greater sense of connection.

The Indie Distributor: Let’s get into the music. You released “Second Guessing” recently. Tell us about the release.

Taylor Simpson: “Second Guessing” is the first single off our upcoming album that comes out next year. We’ve been plugging away all summer. We’ve gone through member changes, but we are now realigned and exploring new sonic landscapes. Thematically it’s still very much us—mental health first and foremost—but sonically we’re kind of all over the place.

“Second Guessing” was one of the first songs we finished. It encapsulates what we’re trying to push forward: an uplifting tone rooted in raw emotion. I describe the mood as “crying on the dance floor.” I want people to jam and rock out, but if you listen closely to the lyrics, you realize it’s heavy.

The song is about being down on yourself and lacking confidence, but consistent with our style, it maintains a silver lining: affirming that you are exactly who you need to be. It’s a short little banger, about 2:10. We felt we had said all we needed to say and refused to force extra components like a bridge just to fit a standard length. We prioritize the integrity of the statement over industry trends.

The Indie Distributor: What does success look like for you?

Taylor Simpson: For us, success is primarily being able to sustain ourselves financially without needing a day job. If I can wake up tomorrow and not go serve, I’ve made it. Beyond finances, success is seeing the positive impact Wishwell makes on people’s lives. When we see that our initiatives, our music, or our partnership with HeartSupport help people feel safe, included, and less alone—that is success.

The Indie Distributor: What advice do you have for up-and-coming indie artists just getting started?

Taylor Simpson: Find who and what you want to be as an artist before anything. Be authentically who you need to be, and people will gravitate towards that. And make sure the music’s good—practice your songwriting, practice your craft.

My genuine advice, which I got from a professor in college, is this: There is no Plan B. The moment you have a Plan B as an independent artist, you’ve already failed. You’re banking on the fact that it’ll fail because you’ve come up with a backup. You’re never going to try as hard to make Plan A work. This is Plan A, and the only Plan A.

The Indie Distributor: That’s powerful.

Taylor Simpson: Whatever “making it” means is up to you. I could say I’ve made it right now. I’ve been in a band for five years, played over a hundred shows, raised thousands of dollars for charity, and touched people in ways I never thought I could. That in itself is making it.

The Indie Distributor: Thank you so much for spending some time with us. We can’t wait to see Wishwell continue to blow up.

Taylor Simpson: Thank you. I can’t tell you how grateful we are to have the platform to speak about these things. As an indie band, it’s hard to get our stuff out there.

I just want to add that the One Beat concert, our charity event, is on Saturday, November 29th at The Ivy in Toronto. It’s our second annual year. $5 from every ticket goes towards HeartSupport to provide free mental health services. Our goal is to raise $1,000 to pay for someone’s entire year of mental health support.

The Indie Distributor: That’s extremely cool. We love what you guys are doing. Thanks again, Taylor.Taylor Simpson: Thank you so much. It’s been a blast.

For Harley Olivia and producer-guitarist Siegfried Meier, “Harley Olivia” is more than a name, it’s a creative force that thrives on risk, humour, and raw honesty. Their latest single, Give It to Me, reimagines one of Harley’s earlier songs with newfound intensity, pairing heavy riffs with a sharp 1950s housewife motif in the video. Also, don’t ask about the cucumber scene. 

The two spoke candidly with The Indie Distributor about reinventing old material, the grind of making videos on a shoestring budget, navigating the industry as indie artists, and why community and authenticity matter more than ever.

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The Indie Distributor: Thanks for joining me today. It’s been a big week with the new single and video. How’s the release going?

Harley Olivia: We released the single on July 25, and the video just dropped today, July 31. We even did a livestream this morning to answer questions. Our videos are always outrageous — I usually put Siegfried in situations I find funny, and luckily other people think they’re funny too.

Siegfried Meier: She’s the mastermind. Director, writer — she always has these wild ideas.

The Indie Distributor: The video plays with the “housewife” motif. Where did that come from?

Harley Olivia: The song actually goes back to my old band, Anthems In Ashes. I’ve been performing it live for seven years. When we started as Harley Olivia, we needed material for our first shows, so we reworked a few Anthems songs with synths and heavier sounds. This one took on a new life — my vocals got stronger, I added screams that weren’t there before, and it finally became what I’d always envisioned. The video idea grew from that. I love showing dichotomies, so we contrasted the struggles of a 1950s housewife with modern-day realities.

The Indie Distributor: Did you change the song much in the rewrite?

Siegfried Meier: A bit. We extended the outro, added new guitar parts, and made it heavier.

Harley Olivia: And like I said, the scream wasn’t there originally. Now I can’t imagine the song without it.

The Indie Distributor: You both direct your own videos. How do you pull that off on an indie budget?

Harley Olivia: We keep costs down by doing as much as possible ourselves. I studied theatre and film, so I enjoy writing scripts, directing, and editing. I learned Premiere, made the graphics, and handled the vision. The only things I outsource are filming — since I can’t hold the camera and perform at the same time — and colour grading, because I refuse to hunch over a computer for hours.

Siegfried Meier: Colour grading is like mastering in audio. After being so close to the project, you need someone else to give it that final touch.

Harley Olivia: Exactly. Otherwise you go crazy staring at it too long.

The Indie Distributor: There’s debate about whether full-length videos are still worth it. What’s your take?

Harley Olivia: I know some people think videos are outdated, but I love creating little worlds. That said, vertical content for TikTok and Instagram is just as important — acoustic versions, EDM remixes, collabs. You can drip content to keep momentum. If making a big video weighs you down, skip it and do vertical clips instead. For me, though, I love the process.

Siegfried Meier: At the end of the day, the artist is the product. The music is just advertising for you.

The Indie Distributor: Harley, you were a flight attendant before pursuing music full-time. What was that transition like?

Harley Olivia: It was tough. The job gave me amazing travel opportunities, but the schedule destroyed my health. I’d land in a new country after pulling an all-nighter and pressure myself to go explore when I really needed sleep. Eventually, I realized I had ADHD, which made the exhaustion worse. I was anxious, not eating right, and saying no to music opportunities. Finally, I quit.

But it wasn’t instant. I worked as a housekeeper for six months to get by, then built up vocal coaching alongside performing. Now coaching is a huge part of my life and has made me a better artist, too.

Siegfried Meier: She’s incredible at it. I won’t even record vocals with clients unless she’s in the room. She pushes singers to do their best instead of settling for “fix it in post.”

The Indie Distributor: Where do you stand on AI in music?

Siegfried Meier: I use it as a tool. It’s great for technical fixes — removing reverb from a vocal, isolating instruments for lessons. But we don’t use it to write songs or lyrics. The danger is in things like AI mastering being marketed as equivalent to human work. It’s not.

Harley Olivia: Exactly. Used responsibly, it’s helpful. But people still crave the human touch.

The Indie Distributor: Harley, what advice would you give to indie female artists?

Harley Olivia: Learn as much as you can so you can create in-house — recording, editing, video, songwriting, lessons. And don’t isolate yourself. Celebrate your peers’ successes, collaborate, share fans, and build community. Being an indie musician can be lonely, especially as a solo artist. But if you support one another, it becomes much more sustainable.

The Indie Distributor: What’s next? EP, album, more singles?

Siegfried Meier: I’d love a full LP. An EP feels like a few chapters; an album feels like the full book. True fans still want that journey from start to finish.

Harley Olivia: We’ll still drip singles for the algorithm, but the end goal is a full-length. Our next single, San Francisco, is very different from Give It to Me. We filmed the video on location, and it’s probably my favourite song we’ve done.

The Indie Distributor: You’ve also signed with new management. How’s that dynamic?

Harley Olivia: We’re working with Dark Phoenix 45. They’re artist-first and really believe in what we do. For us, the most important thing was finding people as passionate about our music as we are. They help with grant proposals, festival submissions, and all the time-consuming tasks that pull me away from creating. Having boots on the ground in the U.S. is huge too.

Siegfried Meier: A team makes a difference. Even indie artists need support to navigate festivals, tours, and networking.

The Indie Distributor: Any last words for fans looking to catch you live?

Harley Olivia: Yes! We’re playing Gussapolooza this summer, and the video we just released actually includes footage from last year’s set. It’s one of our favourite shows every year. We’ll also be at Salt and Harvest Fest in Goderich and Sutton Fair in August. For anyone under 19, festivals are the best place to catch us since most of our shows are 19+.

Siegfried Meier: And August 9 is my birthday show — come celebrate.

The Indie Distributor: Perfect. Thank you so much for being here. Looking forward to seeing you at Gussapolooza!

Harley Olivia: Thank you!
Siegfried Meier: Thanks — see you soon.

An Interview with The Manic Boys and Girls Club

What happens when you grow up between Toronto and Portugal, raised on language, travel, and a subtle sense of wanderlust? For siblings Bela and Fernando Ferreira of The Manic Boys and Girls Club, it becomes the root of something bigger: a pulsing alt-pop sound with cinematic flair and lyrics that aren’t afraid to peel back the layers. In this conversation, the duo opens up about their upbringing, the magic of DIY video shoots, working with Gavin Brown (who offered some tough love), and why they’ll take 500 fans who really care over 50,000 clicks. 

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The Indie Distributor: Thanks so much for joining us today. We’re here with The Manic Boys and Girls Club—a band born in Toronto but with deep roots in Portugal. Let’s start from the beginning: tell us a bit about where you come from and how your background has shaped your music.

Fernando Ferreira: We were born in Toronto, actually. But we spent a big part of our childhood going back and forth to Portugal. That back-and-forth really shaped us. Our parents always made sure we stayed connected to our roots. We spoke the language, spent time with our grandparents. There was a plan, I think, in their minds—that we’d move back eventually.

Bela Ferreira: Yeah, our mom especially. It was hard for her to leave her parents. So she made sure we had that bond, and honestly, now I see it as a blessing. Back then, I sometimes found it frustrating. I wanted to stay back, be with my friends, grow up in one place. But now I look back and realize how lucky we were to have spent that much time with our grandparents, and to have that exposure to a whole other culture and pace of life.

Fernando Ferreira: It definitely seeped into our music. That feeling of not quite fitting in anywhere—it’s part of who we are. And part of what the music reflects.

The Indie Distributor: When did music start to become more than just something you were around?

Fernando Ferreira: It started pretty young. I think our parents just wanted to keep us out of trouble, so they threw us into music thinking it would be a hobby. But we became obsessed. We were writing songs when we were kids. Bela Ferreira wrote her first one at seven.

Bela Ferreira: It became this world we built together, like a secret language. We were always bouncing ideas off each other, even long before the band officially existed.

The Indie Distributor: When did the idea of forming this band become real?

Fernando Ferreira: It’s been in the works for a long time in spirit, but The Manic Boys and Girls Club came together more recently. But it feels like we’ve been doing it forever. Even though it’s only been a few years, it’s all built on years of shared experiences and creative conversations.

The Indie Distributor: Let’s talk about that performance at the Portuguese Music Awards. What was that like?

Bela Ferreira: Wild. We had just won Video of the Year at the International Portuguese Music Awards the year before, which was already surreal. Then out of nowhere, we get this email asking us to come back and perform. When we got there, they casually dropped the bomb that we’d be opening the entire show.

Fernando Ferreira: There was a full video montage leading into our performance, and they flew us out a couple of weeks early to film B-roll to weave into it. Everything was next-level. Like, someone was setting up my guitar. That doesn’t happen. We were fully expecting to lug our own gear and change our strings in the green room.

Bela Ferreira: Our gear had already been shipped. There was a tech asking us what gauge of strings we use. We’re like—wait, is this real? Definitely ruined us for future shows. That level of treatment… we got used to it real quick.

The Indie Distributor: It’s a high bar once you’ve stayed at the Four Seasons.

Fernando Ferreira: Exactly. You don’t go back to the Super 8 after that.

The Indie Distributor: Let’s talk about the name—The Manic Boys and Girls Club. There’s something inclusive about it. You often talk about your music as a community rather than fan base. Can you expand on that?

Bela Ferreira: I’ve always wanted to feel part of something. Maybe it’s because we spent so much time floating between places growing up—Toronto, Portugal—we never really had that one set group or clique. But with music, especially with bands I loved, I always felt like I was part of a secret club.

Fernando Ferreira: And for whatever reason, we’ve never really been part of a scene. We’re not downtown Toronto. We’re not part of a defined genre circle. We just do our thing, and the people who connect with it—that’s the club. It’s this little crew of outsiders finding each other.

Bela Ferreira: You go to a show, and suddenly you’re surrounded by strangers who all know the same lyrics. That’s a kind of magic we wanted to recreate. Not just songs and lights, but a moment where people feel seen. We’re all a bit lost, a bit clueless—and that’s okay. That’s the club.

The Indie Distributor: Let’s shift gears a bit. You worked with Gavin Brown on a set of songs. What was that experience like?

Bela Ferreira: Tough love. Whatever studio experience we had before, Gavin flipped it. He wasn’t there to flatter us. He’d be like, “Nope. That’s not good enough. Start over.”

Fernando Ferreira: Yeah, and it wasn’t just technical stuff. He challenged us emotionally. We sometimes hide behind metaphor in our lyrics—Gavin called us on it. He’d go, “I don’t know what you’re trying to say.” And when we explained, shyly, what we meant, he’d say, “There it is. That’s your lyric.”

Bela Ferreira: It was eye-opening. Stripping the ego, the fear of being vulnerable… just putting the truth out there. Since then, that’s the standard. Say what you mean. The more honest we are, the more people connect.

The Indie Distributor: Did it change the way you write?

Fernando Ferreira: Definitely. And it changed how we record, too. A lot of people go in with 20 demos and choose the best 10. We go in with four songs and leave with six. Something always sparks in the studio. It’s not textbook. It’s 75% done, and the rest is left open for spontaneity.

Bela Ferreira: That latest track we did in LA? It started in Toronto, but once we were in this old house in the hills—with all this old Hollywood energy—we rewrote parts on the spot. That last 15% is the souvenir you bring back. A postcard from the process.

The Indie Distributor: Let’s talk about your videos. They’re striking, cinematic, personal, and emotional. But they don’t feel overproduced.

Bela Ferreira: They’re not. It’s usually just the two of us, maybe a couple of friends, a borrowed camera, and some peanut butter and jam. We do our brainstorming at a taco place in Studio City called Mexicali. We get the margarita jug, and by the end of the night, we’ve got the video mapped out.

Fernando Ferreira: It’s pure DIY. One time, we needed a cool car. So we rented a vintage Mustang off a guy who rents it out for dates. Another time, we shot at a pumpkin farm. Another day, we were filming with a fashion designer in his insane downtown LA loft—he ended up becoming the main character of the video. No actors, just real people.

Bela Ferreira: And the guy had a man-made lagoon with a waterfall in his backyard. We wrote a scene where our friend jumped off it. Didn’t plan it, but it became the perfect ending. That’s how it goes—we work with what we have. And people connect to that.

The Indie Distributor: So, what advice do you have for artists trying to make videos without big budgets?

Fernando Ferreira: It’s not about the gear. It’s about the idea. A great idea filmed badly can still connect. A bad idea filmed well won’t. Use what you’ve got. Shoot with your phone if you need to. If it feels authentic, people will feel that.

Bela Ferreira: Some of our favourite videos are just bands performing. It doesn’t need to be complicated—just real.

The Indie Distributor: Last question—what’s coming up next for you?

Bela Ferreira: More shows. We’re heading back to Portugal this summer. Last year, we did this cool tour of music/bookstores, kind of like cultural spots. This year we’re stepping it up with club dates. We’re also recording new music, and yes, more videos. One song at a time.

Fernando Ferreira: Yeah, we don’t really plan too far ahead. When we do, nothing goes the way we thought it would. But when we just focus on the song, the performance, and the people, cool things tend to happen.

The Indie Distributor: That’s the spirit. Thanks again for being here. Can’t wait to see what you do next!

An Interview with Kent Merriam of Feral Minks

In a world where indie bands are carving their own path with grit, passion, and countless tinny-sounding voice memos, Feral Minks is staking their claim. Frontman Kent Merriam sat down with The Indie Distributor to talk about the band’s journey from pandemic solo sessions to full-stage festival favourites.

Kent shares how COVID lockdowns gave birth to Feral Minks’ early work, what it’s like collaborating with The Glorious Sons’ Jay Emmons, and how life as a parent and former pro athlete informs his creative discipline. From dissecting the evolution of one of their latest singles, “Deeper Red” to reflecting on the state of the music industry and offering grounded advice for aspiring artists, Kent reminds us that the path is never linear, but it’s always worth walking.

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The Indie Distributor: We’re joined today by Kent Merriam from the amazing Feral Minks. We’re going to talk about some of the projects you’ve got going on and how things started. Thanks again for joining us. Could you walk us through your backstory with the band, how it all began?

Kent Merriam: Thanks for having me. This project really started when COVID hit. We were all doing music in other projects, and when everything shut down, I kept going with my own music. We had all the time in the world, right? I connected with a guy from a small town near me, Conestoga, and I’d go there to record. He’d be in one room engineering, and I’d be in another recording. We did a five-song EP that way, me and Ben Kempel.

That process took a while… I’d go in for an hour or two at a time. After that EP was done and venues started reopening, it was time to put a band together. The guys I play with now, their projects had slowed down too, so I got to them first and invited them in. That’s how the current lineup came together.

After that first EP, I bounced it to Adam, the drummer from The Glorious Sons. I’ve known some of those guys for a while. Adam said Jay Emmons was getting into production and got us connected. I knew Jay a little, but once we linked up, he said he’d be interested in working together. Since then, Jay’s been the producer on all our stuff.

The Indie Distributor: I didn’t realize Jay was involved with everything post-EP. That’s awesome. So now that you’ve got a band in place, how has the writing process changed? You post a lot of great acoustic ideas online is it more collaborative now?

Kent Merriam: With everyone working day jobs and busy at night, what works best for me is carving out time after dropping the kids at school. I try to write every day, five days a week. It used to be at night, but with the kids staying up later now, it’s just not practical to be writing at 10 or 11 p.m. anymore.

I write after the drop-off, build a bank of ideas, then pick the ones I want to show the guys. I usually come in with a rough concept, but once we get together, things evolve. Everyone adds their own touch. It starts with my vision, but when Jay, Ryan, and Al bring their parts in, that vision expands.

The Indie Distributor: Totally. Songs have a life of their own; they grow when more people get involved. That collaborative magic. On that note, let’s talk about “Deeper Red.” You mentioned it was a long time coming. What was the process like for that one?

Kent Merriam: Yeah, I brought it to the table, and it started out completely different. I’ll probably post the original voice note at some point so people can hear the evolution. We experimented with a bunch of directions. Usually, we land on something pretty quickly, but “Deeper Red” took about a year to get right.

It started as an afterthought during rehearsal,s we’d finish running our set and then mess around with it. It kept changing. Add stuff, remove stuff. It just never quite settled until it finally did. The final version is a far cry from the original idea.

The Indie Distributor: I love those stories. Every band’s got songs that fall into place and others you have to drag out of the ether. What exactly changed was it the arrangement, the vibe?

Kent Merriam: The whole feel changed. It’s hard to explain. Once I post the before-and-after clips, it’ll make more sense, but it ended up in a very different place than where it started.

The Indie Distributor: And the video or “visualizer” for the track: how did that come about? You worked with Truffle Images and Front Row Lady, right? What’s the distinction between that and a typical music video?

Kent Merriam: Honestly, I’m not sure there is a strict definition. In this case, the visualizer was just a bunch of footage we already had. We didn’t go out and shoot a dedicated music video. Sandy from Front Row Lady did all the reels with lyrics and visuals we’ve used those for TikTok and Instagram. She also did the ones for “My Escapade” and “The Matador.” The plan was to do a content day for “Deeper Red,” but everyone’s work schedules got in the way, so that’s still on the table.

The track itself was recorded late one night in Kingston while we were finishing the “Young Desire” EP with Jay and Steve. We had a few songs nearly done, and they said, “Let’s try ‘Deeper Red’ live off the floor.” Took two or three passes. I didn’t love the vocal take it was late so I re-recorded that. Then we added some keys and backing vocals, but it started as a live take and built from there.

The Indie Distributor: Love that. So is “Deeper Red” part of a larger album effort, or standing on its own?

Kent Merriam: Right now, it’s a standalone single. We’re still figuring out what comes next EP, album, more singles. You hear people say it’s a singles market now. Personally, I’d love to do a full-length album, but we’ll see.

The Indie Distributor: Yeah, I still value albums too. They let you dive deep into an artist’s creative world. Singles are like snapshots. If I’d stopped at “No Rain” by Blind Melon, I’d have missed the full picture. But I get the appeal of giving every song its own moment.

Kent Merriam: Exactly. If you release an EP or album and only three songs are singles, the rest don’t really get their moment. With singles, every song gets its shot. That’s kind of how we’re approaching it, giving each track space to shine before moving on to the next.

The Indie Distributor: Makes sense. There’s no hard and fast rule anymore; it’s about knowing your audience. So, bigger picture question: if you could change one thing about the state of the music industry right now, what would it be?

Kent Merriam: Honestly, I just focus on what we need to do. We take things day by day. That said, the whole “TikTok blow-up” culture and the way singles dominate that part bugs me a bit. But we’ve got a great team, and we just keep moving forward.

The Indie Distributor: Totally. I’ve heard everything in these interviews from artists getting burned out juggling social, booking, writing,and producing. It’s a lot of hats to wear.

Kent Merriam: Yeah, I struggled with that about a year ago when we really started pushing social media. It was a learning curve. But you build your toolbox day by day. A year from now, the stuff that stresses you out will feel easy. You just keep at it.

The Indie Distributor: Love that. It’s a constant evolution. Like ambulance drivers, they have to look at the horizon to plan their moves. Same with musicians, you’ve got to think a year ahead. What advice do you give when younger musicians reach out?

Kent Merriam: I started my music journey late. Growing up, I was chasing the hockey dream. I played three years of pro overseas, but it didn’t pan out the way I hoped. I learned a lot from that, especially that I didn’t work as hard as the guys who made it to the show. That realization fueled how I approach music now. That’s actually what “The Polish” is about: recognizing you didn’t give it everything, but getting a fresh start and doing it better this time.

So yeah, my advice is: don’t give up. Take it day by day. If you really want it, go take it.

The Indie Distributor: I love that philosophy, nothing is wasted if you’re applying the lessons. What’s on your nightstand right now? Any books or inspiration?

Kent Merriam: I don’t really read much. My inspiration comes from past experience, from thinking about where I want to be, and what kind of father I want to be. That’s what drives me.

The Indie Distributor: Respect. So what’s next? Any upcoming shows or releases?

Kent Merriam: We’ve got a bunch of shows lined up for spring and summer. We’re also working on a fall tour. We’ll have an announcement soon, probably 10 or 12 shows. We just finished recording another tune, too. The plan is to let “Deeper Red” breathe, then maybe release the next one in late May or early June. Keep recording. Keep grinding.

The Indie Distributor: Love it. We’re big fans and hope to share a stage at some point. We’ll see you at Gussapolooza this year!

Kent Merriam: That’s the plan. Last year was our first time camping there brought the whole family. 

The Indie Distributor: Amazing. Kent, thanks so much for taking the time. It’s always great to connect and hear where you’re at. Appreciate you, man.

Kent Merriam: Thank you. We all appreciate it!

Ever wonder what it’s like to juggle making music, running a band, and handling all the behind-the-scenes business? 

The Indie Distributor catches up with Nicky Markin from Midnite Gossip to talk about just that. She takes us through the band’s journey, from figuring out music production to crafting a killer live show. Along the way, we dive into the ups and downs of being an indie artist, the power of networking, and why treating your music like a business can make all the difference. 

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The Indie Distributor: Thanks for joining! We’re here with Nicky Markin from the amazing Midnite Gossip. Thanks for taking the time to chat. We’ll touch on your creative endeavours and some of the entrepreneurial projects you’ve been working on. To start, can you give us some background on your origin story with Midnite Gossip and how things came together leading up to 2022?

Nicky Markin: Midnite Gossip started in 2022, but before that, I was a singer-songwriter and independent artist with a solo project for many years. I’ve played guitar since I was a kid—I picked up my mom’s old classical guitar when I was about 13 or 14 and taught myself to play. Around 2019, I decided to take music seriously, started vocal lessons for the first time, and immersed myself in building a music community.

I was also in my master’s program at the time, doing dance and other training, and realized I’d never actually taken vocal lessons. That was a game-changer because it connected me with other singers and artists. Then the pandemic hit, which changed things for everyone, but I didn’t let it slow me down. I started engaging in online communities, attending virtual open mics, and working on production.

During this period, I realized I wanted to make uplifting music—songs that would make people dance and feel good. That’s what led me into production and electronic music. I made a bunch of demos that would later become Midnite Gossip’s songs. In 2022, my bandmate Mickey and I reconnected after knowing each other since the MySpace days. Once we started talking again, we realized we had the same vision for a music project, and things have been great ever since.

The Indie Distributor: That’s amazing! Do you and Mickey share similar influences?

Nicky Markin: Absolutely. We grew up in the Big Shiny Tunes and MuchMusic era, and that really shaped our sound. The 90s had such a diverse mix of genres—bands like Incubus, Nine Inch Nails, and Massive Attack all influenced us. That’s why we landed on calling our music “cinematic alt-pop” because it’s a blend of so many things. When we play live, we take the audience on a journey through different sounds, which might seem eclectic individually but work cohesively in a set.

The Indie Distributor: What does your creative process look like?

Nicky Markin: I usually start with lyrics and map out a rough demo in Logic. Then I pass it to Mickey, who works his magic with production. We go back and forth refining the song. He’s incredibly skilled at composing and producing, so it’s a collaborative process where we keep building on each other’s ideas. It’s a fun challenge to let go of my original version and let him reinterpret it. It’s like a tennis match of creativity.

The Indie Distributor: That’s really cool. You’re producing and mixing everything yourself?

Nicky Markin: Yes, we record all our vocals and production in-house. We do most of the mixing, then pass it off to someone else for final mixing and mastering.

The Indie Distributor: How do you translate that studio work into live performance?

Nicky Markin: We use backing tracks for our live shows, which comes with its own challenges, but it allows us to bring the full production to life. Our live versions often have extended bridges or intros, so we create different mixes for the stage. Mickey plays an acoustic drum kit live, and when we have access to screens, we incorporate custom visuals that he creates as a visual artist.

The Indie Distributor: You were nominated for the California Music and Video Awards—how did that happen?

Nicky Markin: We submitted our video and were thrilled to be nominated for three awards: the 8th Annual California Music Video & Film Awards for: Best of Canada Music Video, Coolest Video Effects, and The Chip E. Best EDM/Dance Music Video Award. More recently, we were also nominated for Best Performance Video at the Simi Music Video Awards in California. It was amazing to see our DIY project get international recognition. Mickey directed and edited the video, and we shot it ourselves in my living room on the hottest day in June!

The Indie Distributor: What advice do you have for indie artists looking to create professional music videos on a budget?

Nicky Markin: Having a solid concept is key. If you can’t edit or shoot yourself, invest in hiring someone. Even if you’re DIY, using good lighting and planning your shots makes a huge difference. And remember, a lot can be done in post-production.

The Indie Distributor: Shifting gears to the business side, can you talk about your EPK (Electronic Press Kit) initiative?

Nicky Markin: Sure! I have an MBA in Entrepreneurial Management, and after graduation, I wanted to use it to help indie artists. That’s how The Indie MBA started. I realized one of the biggest struggles artists face is creating an effective EPK. So I developed the EPK Blueprint—a resource that includes templates, guides, and checklists to help artists get booked, get paid, and get known. It includes the EPK checklist, a bio-writing and press release guide and templates, two customizable one-sheet templates and a branding guide and brand board template. 

The Indie Distributor: It really is a fantastic resource. Where can people find it?

Nicky Markin: It’s available on my Instagram (@theindiemba) through the link in my bio.

The Indie Distributor: Any final advice for indie artists struggling with the business side of music?

Nicky Markin: If you don’t want to do the business side, that’s okay—just make music. But if you want to get booked and paid, you have to treat it like a business. It’s a mindset shift. Your music is a product, and you have to let go and let it find its audience. Also, networking is huge—it’s not just what you know, it’s who you know. Opportunities often come from connections, not just streams or social media numbers.

The Indie Distributor: That’s great insight. What’s next for Midnite Gossip?

Nicky Markin: We have a show on March 3, then we’re heading to Ontario for the taping of our appearance on CMCTV Talent Season 3 that will air later this fall. Midnite Gossip was selected as one of 32 artists to perform on CMCTV Talent Season 3, a nationally televised series showcasing Canada’s top independent musicians on CityTV and CMCanadaTV. We also have a show on March 29, opening for Cold Fame. We’re working on new EPs, remixes, and collaborations. It’s an exciting time!

The Indie Distributor: That’s amazing! Thanks so much for sharing your journey and insights, Nicky. Looking forward to seeing what’s next for Midnite Gossip!
Nicky Markin: Thank you! I appreciate it!

Inside the Making of “Purple”: An Interview with Cudbear’s Bennett Jones

If you haven’t yet had the pleasure of seeing this explosively energetic and yet hauntingly melodic three-piece, do yourself a favour and look up their next live performance. 

Cudbear, from Barrie, has just released their latest album, Purple, marking a pivotal moment in their journey. 

From navigating lineup changes to refining their creative process, frontman Bennett Jones offers insight into the making of the album, their evolving sound, and the challenges of being an independent band. In this conversation with The Indie Distributor, Bennett reflects on the band’s growth, their approach to songwriting, and what’s next for Cudbear. Dive into this candid discussion to discover the inspiration behind Purple and the band’s plans for the future.

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The Indie Distributor: We’re here with Bennett from the incredible three-piece Cudbear from Barrie. They’ve just released a new record called Purple, and it’s fabulous. Bennett, I wanted to ask you a few questions about the record and your experience making it. 

When talking to musicians who’ve been through the recording process a few times, the decision to compile everything into a full LP is always interesting. Was this something you planned in advance, gathering singles into an album, or was there a different process behind Purple?

Bennett Jones: This record was a bit unusual. We found out our drummer wanted to pursue something else, and at that point, we had written so much music. I really pushed to make a record because I didn’t want those songs to go unrecorded. I don’t have regrets, but I do wish we had recorded even more music when we were a unit—we probably had enough for two albums at the time.

Purple ended up being the best selection of what we had. Some songs were written when the band first formed, and others came just months before we went into the studio. It’s a mix of old and new, but I think the flow works well, and it captures everything we wanted to say at that moment.

The Indie Distributor: It’s a current statement. Between your 2019 release and now, you’ve gained a lot of experience. What did you learn in the process?

Bennett Jones: Every record has been different. We also did an EP in between, and when looking at our discography, we were reflecting on which project was the most fun and what direction we want to go next. I don’t have a favourite, but *First Bite* has a youthful angst to it—we were 19 or 20 at the time. That energy is something we’re trying to channel again.

I’ve learned to always be writing and recording. You never know when you’ll need to put together another album, and when that time comes, you want to be prepared. Our EP was a bit more experimental, like the piano-driven song that transitions into electric. It was fun, but I prefer concise, clear artistic statements. Purple is direct and in-your-face, and I like that.

The Indie Distributor: That clarity really comes through. Do you have a new drummer now?

Bennett Jones: Yes, we brought in Keegan Ross. He also plays in Gout and O27, but he’s now part of Cudbear. We went on tour in 2024 and did everything independently—we don’t have a tour manager or label. This year, we’re planning more shows and looking at the possibility of working with a label or management team. Most of the artists we admire have some kind of team supporting them, and we’ve started to consider that as a next step. Ideally, we’d love to make a living off of music, touring half the year and writing in between.

The Indie Distributor: That transition isn’t easy. It’s a shift in autonomy, and indie artists have to be ready for that. On Purple, did you work with a producer?

Bennett Jones: We worked with Zach Johnson. He produced and mixed the record. He was great to work with, especially for me because I like doing a lot of overdubs and harmonies. He made the tracking process smooth and efficient. We’ve always referred to our collaborators as engineers rather than producers since we bring in fully formed songs. A producer, to me, is someone who shapes the sound and pushes the band in new directions.

The Indie Distributor: That makes sense. So, do you have physical copies of the album?

Bennett Jones: Yes! We pressed 200 CDs through Indie Pool in Toronto. CDs still sell well at shows, along with T-shirts. Even though CD players are becoming rare, people still collect them, and they’re an affordable option for bands.

The Indie Distributor: Purple is an intriguing title. What’s behind that name?

Bennett Jones: It just felt right. After coming home from the studio, I kept thinking that Purple captured the emotion of the record perfectly. Interestingly, Cudbear is also the name of a purple dye, which was a coincidental but fitting connection.

The Indie Distributor: That’s a cool fact! What’s your songwriting process like? Do you write together in a room, or do you bring ideas individually?

Bennett Jones: Ideally, we write together because that’s what rock and roll is—people in a room, sometimes irritating each other, channelling that energy into music. But it varies. Sometimes Adam and I hash out ideas and bring them to the drummer. Other times, I’ll take something as far as I can before presenting it at practice. We haven’t found a perfect formula yet.

The Indie Distributor: That’s fair—sometimes keeping it flexible is the best approach. What’s next for Cudbear?

Bennett Jones: We’re tracking new songs and have about half an album done. We’ve been playing some unreleased songs live, and people have been asking for recordings, so we’re considering a Purple deluxe edition or starting a new album. We also met a producer at Gussapolooza, Sig Freed Mier, and we’re hoping to work with him this year.

Beyond that, we want to keep playing shows and figuring out ways to fund our music. We’ve talked about doing some cover gigs since they pay well and could help sustain our original work.

The Indie Distributor: That’s always a balance—deciding how much time to dedicate to covers versus original material. Given how much the industry has changed since 2019, do you have any advice for emerging artists?

Bennett Jones: Focus on the music first—practice every day. There are more resources than ever, but the industry is also more saturated. The key is to not give up. If you take yourself seriously, others will too. Stay professional and persistent.

The Indie Distributor: That’s solid advice. Any upcoming shows?

Bennett Jones: We’re playing the Queens Hotel in Barrie on March 15th, and we’ll be back at Gussapolooza in 2025 as a headliner. It’s going to be a great weekend!

The Indie Distributor: Awesome! Thanks for your time, Bennett. Purple sounds fantastic, and we’ll be promoting it so more people hear it. Where can people follow Cudbear?

Bennett Jones: Instagram is the best place right now. We’re also on YouTube, Facebook, and TikTok.

The Indie Distributor: Perfect. Thanks again, Bennett!